Talk:Joan of Arc

Didn't she refer to herself as Jehanne?

In the page it says that she refers to herself as "Jeanne," but isn't this the standardized version of her name? You even have her signature in the page "Jehanne" Tisthefirstletter (talk) 12:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Have you seen all the different ways Shakespeare signed his name? More or less, orthography in every European language before 1800 was sporadically standardized at best. Remsense ‥ 论 12:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Does the lede need to be so long?

This article has a gold star, but I have no idea why so much biographical detail is needed in the summary of a WP:LEDE. I am not going to attempt to edit it but as someone familiar with being concise I think it can be trimmed down to give a snapshot of her, without being so long. Hausa warrior (talk) 21:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

she requested to be taken to Charles VII, later testifying that she was guided by visions from the archangel Michael, Saint Margaret, and Saint Catherine to help him save France from English domination. Convinced of her devotion and purity, Charles sent Joan, who was about seventeen years old, to the siege of Orléans as part of a relief army. She arrived at the city in April 1429, wielding her banner and bringing hope to the demoralized French army. Nine days after her arrival, the English abandoned the siege. Joan encouraged the French to aggressively pursue the English during the Loire Campaign, which culminated in another decisive victory at Patay, opening the way for the French army to advance on Reims unopposed, where Charles was crowned as the King of France with Joan at his side. These victories boosted French morale, paving the way for their final triumph in the Hundred Years' War several decades later.Why all of this detail in a summary? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hausa warrior (talk • contribs) 21:08, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

It's four full-ish paragraphs, which is roughly what we aim for. The passage you posted is a pretty memorable narrative arc in her life. If I were to pick an FA to rag on its lead, it wouldn't be this one. Remsense ‥ 论 22:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Canonization rationale

The page states that,

"Joan was canonized as a Virgin, not as a Christian martyr"

Whatever the first sources says, the second source, which is the more important, Saint Benedict XV's papal bull,

DIVINA DISPONENTE* BEATA IOANNA DE ARC, VIRGO, IN SANCTORUM CAELITUM ALBUM REFERTUR

recognizes her virginity but does not state that as the reason for her canonization. Instead, the document catalogs her life and actions and affirms her motives as consistent with divine inspiration and that her life was devoted to God.

The claim of this sentence, thereby is inaccurate and should be either deleted or modified. Refer, instead to the opening paragraph of the Papal bull,

"coram hominibus definitive sanciehant eius innocentiam, fidem, sanctitatem et obedientiam mandatis Dei, ad quae observanda omnia sustinuit usque ad diram et iniustam mortem."

which translates,

"definitively established before men her innocence, faith, holiness, and obedience to the commandments of God, for which she endured all things to the point of a terrible and unjust death."

She was canonized for being holy, faithful, obedient, and a martyr. Nicollo (talk) 00:35, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

This sentence was carefully worked out during the FAR. The sentence does not refer to the primary source (see WP:PRIMARYCARE). As is appropriate for Wikipedia, it uses secondary source the complex, detailed context of Joan's canonization-including the wording of the bull itself for readers, particularly the misconception that she was canonized as a martyr. The sources clarify why the opening of the bull declares Joan virgo and not the virgo et martyr. As the article and secondary sources point out, it is a fine point. Wtfiv (talk) 16:38, 31 December 2024 (UTC)